This is a revised version of the original transcript, which was automatically generated in the publisher’s platform. It has been edited and shortened for clarity to be published on NEMO’s website, with the permission of the producers.
Host:
Welcome to Straight Talk Southeast Asia. This is a podcast that covers current developments in the region, particular countries, domestic politics, as well as regional issues. We look in depth at what is happening, why it might be happening, we speak to analyst and academics from the region, based in the region, to better understand what’s happening and what might be the projections of what’s happening ahead. We’re now in our second season.
I’m Bridget Welsh. I’m a political analyst and an academic who’s worked on Southeast Asia for many decades. I was raised here, I’m living here, and very importantly, I care about what’s happening in the region. Thanks for joining me.
I’m delighted to have Aye Chan Naing, the chief editor of Democratic Voice of Burma, here on Straight Talk Southeast Asia.
Aye Chan, thank you so much for making time on your very busy schedule to be on Straight Talk.
Aye Chan:
Thank you for having me, Bridget.
Host:
I want our listeners to learn what is the story of the Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB) is, how was it founded and how it operates.
The theme of our discussion today is about how media operates in exile and, particularly, the unique challenges that they face. DVB is a leading survivor in this area, and also thriver. Tell us about your story.
Aye Chan:
We’ve being in exile for more than thirty years, and I used to wonder if we should be proud of being in exile for so long. In fact, we were in exile for about twenty years and then about eight years we were back into our own country. And then, after the military coup in twenty twenty one, we had to go back into exile again. So we’ve been twice in exile.
We started back in nineteen ninety too as a small shop, wave radio station broadcasting from Oslo, Norway, basically to counter the one-sided story that the military propaganda was doing at the time in Burma. There was no freedom of speech, no independent radio station, TV station, not even a magazine. Everything was completely controlled by the military government.
To counter that, we started as a small shortwave radio station to provide unbiased news and information to the people in Burma, and then we grew gradually because of the need for freedom of speech and information inside Burma.
Host:
How do you operate in exile? You’ve had a tremendous impact not only in bringing in more balanced media coverage of what’s happening in the country and helping to push for democratization, but you also faced unique sets of challenges as a media provider and exile. What has been the opportunities and the real challenges?
Aye Chan:
There are obviously lots of challenges, not just being exiled, but also when we were inside Burma. One particular challenge is how to get news out of Burma. We focus on the country, in the country, right? That’s the story that we are bringing back to Burma, and with a terrible, horrible threat for those who provide news. It’s very hard to get the story.
Being in exile means that we are not on the ground, so we have to depend on our reporters who are underground. We call them underground reporters, and we also have to depend on citizen journalists who provide news to us. We are kind of like hybrid, you know. We have to depend pretty much on people on the ground.
We do have reporters, but they are pretty much anonymous and walking underground. We also have lots of citizen journalists that we train. These are the frontline reporters. They provide the news, and DBV does all the editing, following the stories, and verification. That is the biggest challenge that we have. The second biggest challenge is how to survive, how to get the money, how to fund this whole operation, and that is also another challenge.
Host:
You’ve talked about how you train reporters and others. How have you been able to maintain access, and how have you been able to do verification? That’s a very difficult challenge, especially now with the conflict there is, which in some ways is arguably even more challenging than it was in the past.
Aye Chan:
The solution for that is to diversify the whole social information. We have, for example, citizen journalists and sources, but we don’t rely on just one citizen journalist. We rely on several of them in the same area, for example, so if there’s one story that comes out, we can double-check, triple-check with different sources. These days, the military refuses to talk to us, so we can’t ask them for any kind of verification, even though they’re going to lie anyway on whatever story comes out. But we want to be credible, we want to be respectable, so we try to provide them with the right to reply. The case is how we can make sure our stories are right. We have to have a lot of different sources of information, not just relying on one source. And when we train our journalists or citizen journalists, we always tell them to rely on themselves. We tell them they need to talk to lots of people. For them, I mean, security is the most important thing. They can’t expose themselves working for the Democratic Voice of Burma. If somebody suspects, they are in big danger. There are lots of problems and issues we have to think about.
Host:
Have you ever been called in to protect your journalists?
Aye Chan:
Yes. For example, right after the coup, seven journalists were arrested, and some of them were badly tortured. That was a pretty tricky situation. When the military coup happened, I was out of Burma, and I was, in fact, the only one out of Burma, and the rest of my colleagues were all inside the country, and the military was putting pressure on journalists, arresting journalists. And the question is, what do we do? Should we stop reporting to protect ourselves for our own security, or should we keep on reporting?
It means you could get arrested, you could be tortured, you could even get killed in prison. That was a big, tough discussion and a decision to be made. And we decided to continue reporting the military crackdown and uprising in Burma. We went ahead with that, and some of the reporters paid the price for that. But as a media organization, this is a time when we have to play our role and report on what’s happening and the brutalities committed by the military. Some of my colleagues were badly tortured, but still some of them were released. We still have one reporter who is being detained in prison in Burma.
Host:
I think it’s important to bring attention to the treatment of journalists by the military, not only torture and the detention. I know I speak for many people that these issues should not be ignored, and pressure should be put on this Junta to release all journalists from captivity. What’s happening is an abomination. I’m sure it’s very difficult for you because these are your colleagues and your friends.
Aye Chan:
That is a very important statement. If the government or the military or whoever controlled the country starts targeting the journalists, you are silencing the voices of the people. That’s a big thing, and it’s a scary thing. The journalists are being targeted everywhere, and if you kill the voice of the journalist, then you kill everyone’s voices.
About two hundred journalists have been arrested since the coup, and fifty of them are still in prison. The military is becoming harsher and harsher. A journalist or filmmaker was arrested a while ago, and she was sentenced to life imprisonment. She wasn’t even doing politics. She was covering the social life of the people. And that’s the example that the military wants to set for people: If you do this, you could be imprisoned for life.
Host:
Yes, as you rightly point out, the risks are very high, and people are paying the price of those risks. But at the same time, you’re also pointing out the need to continue to report. It’s also critically important. How does DVB balance this role of very high risks with the role of trying to carve and protect democratic space in the ongoing situation in Burma? How have you felt is the best way to go about finding this balance, and at the same time, pushing for democratic space?
Aye Chan:
We always tell our reporters or journalists that their their security is the most important. If you get arrested, your voice is going to be silenced. The first thing is you need to think about your own security, and not take risks. Having said that, we also have to cover what’s happening. The balance in between the risks and the job that you have to do is delicate.
Everyone understands how important the role we play is. We are bringing out a lot of issues that otherwise nobody will talk about. For example, in Burma today, there are millions of internally displaced persons, people running away from their home, their village, their town, the cities, because of the conflict in the area. Activism is being targeted by the military, people are arrested daily, and there are lots of incidents involving the military. And if we don’t talk about it, who is going to talk about it? That’s how we have to expand our space. And the most important thing, what we believe is we’ll be bringing hope to people in this tragedy that everybody is facing. Then, if you lose hope, you can’t survive any longer.
What we talk about every day on TV, on the radio, on social media… in the end, it’s bringing hope. Things are happening, people are trying to get their freedom, and people are not giving up. Lots of people have resilience, and that brings hope for the people inside Burma.
Host:
There’s the point you’re making about resilience. DVB has been resilient as a media organization. Myanmar is resilient as it’s facing these horrific crimes that are taking place inside the society by the Junta. Looking at the crisis in Myanmar, four years since the coup, what can be realistically done to make progress now? If you had a voice to push forward, what would be the key steps that you think need to be pushed forward?
Aye Chan:
Back into Malaysia. Malaysia is now like the chair of the Asian Countries, and the Asian countries have adopted this five-point consensus since twenty twenty one after the coup, and none of the points where implemented, including humanitarian systems, the release of political prisoners, and dialogue. None of the points were implemented. It’s been more than four years.
We want more than those five points, but even those five points haven’t been implemented. And I think Malaysia plays a key role as a democratic country compared to many other Asian members. They can play a big role in implementing those points and pushing them.
This is a tangible period when the military might fall in Burma. They have already lost fifty percent of the country, and the remaining fifty percent that they control is not really in control. Lots of people used to say that the army was the strongest institution in Burma, and we argued, no, it wasn’t. It was just a Hollywood institution. It’s crippling inside, and that’s why we’re saying that they are falling apart. The only thing that unites them is what you call a common structure. It’s a fear within the army. People are scared, even in the army itself. Everybody is scared and following the order. But there is no principle, no ethic, no regulation that unites them; only fear unites them. But now we’re seeing it. The soldiers are running away from the army, and now they are forcing young people to get into the army, forcing them to fight for them. It’s just a matter of time for the military to fall completely, but we need to push further. This is a time when it really is possible.
Host:
In a recent presentation I gave talking about the region, I highlighted that this was a very pivotal year for Burma. You have to begin from a conscious awareness that there are multiple sovereignties in the country and the military is now very much on the back foot, which is what you’re describing here. The military as an institution is weakening and rotting from within with desperation, and this is something that is very real.
Let’s close in this conversation to talk about what role the media can play now. It is a very challenging year for Myanmar. At the same time as you face the challenges of finances and the reporters face the frontline challenges on the ground, what key role do you see DVB playing as the country moves forward?
Aye Chan:
Freedom of speech is the most important thing that we play. Not just now but also in the future, even when we get to have a democratic government, freedom of speech will play a pretty important role wherever we are. That’s the space that we are trying to play in.
And nowadays, especially, with the Internet and social media, with lots of fake news, lots of disinformation, lots of propaganda, for example, independent media play an even more important role. For young people is very hard to know who to believe. All sides of information are coming up, and people are bringing you in different directions. In that kind of situation, independent media — which is unbiased and not pulled by any government, or the military, or business— is crucial for the general public. Otherwise, people have a problem believing anyone, and we have to build up ourselves into that kind of position where we are credible, we are ethical, and we’re not controlled by anyone.
Host:
This was Aye Chan speaking about the need for freedom of speech, the need to hope and maintain hope, the need to engender and help the young people dig through the mess of misinformation in this current age, and the need for change in Burma.
Aye Chan Naing, thank you so much for being here.
Aye Chan:
Thank you, Bridgett. Thank you for having me on your show.
Host:
Thanks so much for listening.